On 8 February 2013 03:48, Patrick W. Gilmore <patrick@ianai.net> wrote:
On Feb 07, 2013, at 21:01 , Stephen Wilcox <steve.wilcox@ixreach.com> wrote:
On 8 February 2013 01:47, Corey Quinn <corey@sequestered.net> wrote:
On Feb 7, 2013, at 5:41 PM, Stephen Wilcox <steve.wilcox@ixreach.com> wrote:
No, it qualifies given that almost every consumer (and a fair few business) facing service out there lets you use either Twitter or Facebook to authenticate; it's in the same bucket as 8.8.8.8 going down. Widespread service failures for end users result if it happens, and is the kind of thing that's useful to understand in the context of "why is the helpdesk phone exploding."
The problem here is that 8.8.8.8 as well as many large web sites are distributed. Its legitimately down for you and not for 95% of the rest of its users which may in turn be only a small % of the wider telecom/internet user base.
And a cut between L3 & Sprint, or NYC & LON, which you seem to think qualify, is still "local" and "may in turn be only a small % of the wider telecom/internet user base".
Aren't definitions fun?
Its also clear from the recent posts that the details of how operators like Facebook and Google architect their applications is not well understood by its users.
Oh, please, the details of how Operators like L3 & COLT operate their fiber infrastructure is not understood by L3 & COLT!
Hence we have issues reported which result in large threads which end up being of little use to anyone, even the users of those apps.
Signal to Noise = poor
I think the S:N ratio is orthogonal to whether it is FB, DNS, or fiber.
I refer again to the list's already written mandate: "failures of major communications infrastructure components having significant traffic-carrying capacity"
Assume Akamai has an outage (using an intentionally impossible scenario just to prove a point :). Would that be "communications infrastructure"? Akamai has essentially zero fiber. How about "significant traffic-carrying capacity"? Akamai has no network. Is it useful to the outages community?
I would argue that "communications infrastructure" can easily encompass more than routers, DWDM, and fiber. I would also argue that things which direct enormous amounts of traffic (FB, Netflix, Google, iPlayer, etc.) count, even though they do not actually _carry_ any traffic.
This is definitely not encompassing Layer-7. I understand its important to a set of users, thats why I suggest there ought to be a place where those users can discuss those issues.
This list isn't for discussion, we have -discuss for that. (And I wonder if this thread should be there?)
This list is for notification. And I would like to be notified if 8.8.8.8 or Netflix is down.
And I would like to be notified if my local Papa Johns has any specials on combo pizza and chicken strips...
The list owners (or a vote of the members? I don't know how this works) can decide otherwise. But your arguments are unpersuasive.
I'm just quoting what the mailman page says the list is for.... if that description is wrong, then I'm on the wrong list. Steve
OTOH: I don't like seeing long threads of useless info (e.g. "Is FB down? I can't load it." with no other info) any more than the next guy. But I repeat, that's orthogonal to the thing which is down. We see just as many clueless "fiber cut" notices as "google is down" notices, if not more.
-- TTFN, patrick
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