IPAWS/FEMA National Test - VoWIFI
I have a report from a usually reliable source that he did not receive today's IPAWS/CMAS/WEA test message, and he surmises this might be because his phone handset is forced to VoWIFI. I have a number of other reports, mostly though not all, from the broadcast engineering community; nobody reported expecting a CMAS and not getting it, so that's not data here. Is anyone on the list involved with the FEMA/IPAWS/CMAS link, or knows someone who is, and has a channel to clear this query up through? I could be unsurprised to find that the carrier VoWIFI proxies missed out on proxying SMS Cell Broadcast, which I gather provides the underlying PHY for CMAS. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
If not aware, it is possible to disable test alerts on iPhone like today’s specifically. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102516 I noticed mine was off the other day and turned it on in anticipation of today’s test. Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 4, 2023, at 12:27 PM, Jay R. Ashworth via Outages <outages@outages.org> wrote:
I have a report from a usually reliable source that he did not receive today's IPAWS/CMAS/WEA test message, and he surmises this might be because his phone handset is forced to VoWIFI. I have a number of other reports, mostly though not all, from the broadcast engineering community; nobody reported expecting a CMAS and not getting it, so that's not data here.
Is anyone on the list involved with the FEMA/IPAWS/CMAS link, or knows someone who is, and has a channel to clear this query up through?
I could be unsurprised to find that the carrier VoWIFI proxies missed out on proxying SMS Cell Broadcast, which I gather provides the underlying PHY for CMAS.
Cheers, -- jra
-- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 _______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
Yesterday I verified that I had everything disabled, and still got the test. — Carlos Alvarez 602-368-6403 On Oct 4, 2023 at 1:34 PM -0700, Brandon Svec via Outages <outages@outages.org>, wrote:
If not aware, it is possible to disable test alerts on iPhone like today’s specifically. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102516
I noticed mine was off the other day and turned it on in anticipation of today’s test.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 4, 2023, at 12:27 PM, Jay R. Ashworth via Outages <outages@outages.org> wrote:
I have a report from a usually reliable source that he did not receive today's IPAWS/CMAS/WEA test message, and he surmises this might be because his phone handset is forced to VoWIFI. I have a number of other reports, mostly though not all, from the broadcast engineering community; nobody reported expecting a CMAS and not getting it, so that's not data here.
Is anyone on the list involved with the FEMA/IPAWS/CMAS link, or knows someone who is, and has a channel to clear this query up through?
I could be unsurprised to find that the carrier VoWIFI proxies missed out on proxying SMS Cell Broadcast, which I gather provides the underlying PHY for CMAS.
Cheers, -- jra
-- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 _______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
They do not use the test header for these NPTs so your phone sees it as a valid alert. Benjamin On Wed, Oct 4, 2023, 1:37 PM Carlos Alvarez via Outages <outages@outages.org> wrote:
Yesterday I verified that I had everything disabled, and still got the test.
— Carlos Alvarez 602-368-6403 On Oct 4, 2023 at 1:34 PM -0700, Brandon Svec via Outages < outages@outages.org>, wrote:
If not aware, it is possible to disable test alerts on iPhone like today’s specifically. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102516
I noticed mine was off the other day and turned it on in anticipation of today’s test.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 4, 2023, at 12:27 PM, Jay R. Ashworth via Outages < outages@outages.org> wrote:
I have a report from a usually reliable source that he did not receive today's IPAWS/CMAS/WEA test message, and he surmises this might be because his phone handset is forced to VoWIFI. I have a number of other reports, mostly though not all, from the broadcast engineering community; nobody reported expecting a CMAS and not getting it, so that's not data here.
Is anyone on the list involved with the FEMA/IPAWS/CMAS link, or knows someone who is, and has a channel to clear this query up through?
I could be unsurprised to find that the carrier VoWIFI proxies missed out on proxying SMS Cell Broadcast, which I gather provides the underlying PHY for CMAS.
Cheers, -- jra
-- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 _______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
_______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
_______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
Also, I believe this specific type of alert cannot be disabled in the U.S. This is the “dear taxpayer, nuclear war has just broken out and you’re gonna die horriblybut we wanted you to have some time to have regrets” alert. Ryan McGinnis ryan@digicana.com [https://bigstormpicture.com](http://bigstormpicture.com) GPG: 5C73 8727 EE58 786A 777C 4F1D B5AA 3FA3 486E D7AD On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 15:36, Carlos Alvarez via Outages <[outages@outages.org](mailto:On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 15:36, Carlos Alvarez via Outages <<a href=)> wrote:
Yesterday I verified that I had everything disabled, and still got the test.
— Carlos Alvarez 602-368-6403 On Oct 4, 2023 at 1:34 PM -0700, Brandon Svec via Outages <outages@outages.org>, wrote:
If not aware, it is possible to disable test alerts on iPhone like today’s specifically. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102516
I noticed mine was off the other day and turned it on in anticipation of today’s test.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 4, 2023, at 12:27 PM, Jay R. Ashworth via Outages <outages@outages.org> wrote:
I have a report from a usually reliable source that he did not receive today's IPAWS/CMAS/WEA test message, and he surmises this might be because his phone handset is forced to VoWIFI. I have a number of other reports, mostly though not all, from the broadcast engineering community; nobody reported expecting a CMAS and not getting it, so that's not data here.
Is anyone on the list involved with the FEMA/IPAWS/CMAS link, or knows someone who is, and has a channel to clear this query up through?
I could be unsurprised to find that the carrier VoWIFI proxies missed out on proxying SMS Cell Broadcast, which I gather provides the underlying PHY for CMAS.
Cheers, -- jra
-- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 _______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
_______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
This conversation should have been moved to -discussion hours ago. ________________________________ From: Outages <outages-bounces@outages.org> on behalf of Ryan McGinnis via Outages <outages@outages.org> Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2023 6:35:08 PM To: Outages <outages@outages.org> Subject: Re: [outages] IPAWS/FEMA National Test - VoWIFI Also, I believe this specific type of alert cannot be disabled in the U.S. This is the “dear taxpayer, nuclear war has just broken out and you’re gonna die horribly but we wanted you to have some time to have regrets” alert. Ryan McGinnis ryan@digicana.com<mailto:ryan@digicana.com> https://bigstormpicture.com<http://bigstormpicture.com> GPG: 5C73 8727 EE58 786A 777C 4F1D B5AA 3FA3 486E D7AD On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 15:36, Carlos Alvarez via Outages <outages@outages.org<mailto:On%20Wed,%20Oct%204,%202023%20at%2015:36,%20Carlos%20Alvarez%20via%20Outages%20<<a%20href=>> wrote: Yesterday I verified that I had everything disabled, and still got the test. — Carlos Alvarez 602-368-6403 On Oct 4, 2023 at 1:34 PM -0700, Brandon Svec via Outages <outages@outages.org>, wrote: If not aware, it is possible to disable test alerts on iPhone like today’s specifically. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102516 I noticed mine was off the other day and turned it on in anticipation of today’s test. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 4, 2023, at 12:27 PM, Jay R. Ashworth via Outages <outages@outages.org> wrote: I have a report from a usually reliable source that he did not receive today's IPAWS/CMAS/WEA test message, and he surmises this might be because his phone handset is forced to VoWIFI. I have a number of other reports, mostly though not all, from the broadcast engineering community; nobody reported expecting a CMAS and not getting it, so that's not data here. Is anyone on the list involved with the FEMA/IPAWS/CMAS link, or knows someone who is, and has a channel to clear this query up through? I could be unsurprised to find that the carrier VoWIFI proxies missed out on proxying SMS Cell Broadcast, which I gather provides the underlying PHY for CMAS. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 _______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages _______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Ryan McGinnis via Outages wrote:
Also, I believe this specific type of alert cannot be disabled in the U.S. This is the “dear taxpayer, nuclear war has just broken out and you’re gonna die horribly but we wanted you to have some time to have regrets” alert.
In the European Union, it is call EU-Alert Level 1. It is a global standard. Cannot disable the Presidential Alert, EU-Alert Level 1, etc. Whether a country uses all emergency mobile alert levels is a country-by-county decision. Almost all mobile phone implements the global standards the same way. None allow the user opt-out of the mandatory national alert code (EU-Alert Level 1, Presidential Alert, whatever its called). Some countries use the mandatory national alert code, other countries don't. Here is the EU version of the global emergency mobile alert standard https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/102900_102999/102900/01.03.01_60/ts_102... Tourist phones will work the same way as locally purchased phones when used in each country.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay R. Ashworth via Outages" <outages@outages.org>
I could be unsurprised to find that the carrier VoWIFI proxies missed out on proxying SMS Cell Broadcast, which I gather provides the underlying PHY for CMAS.
I have now an authoritative report that no, the carrier WIFI proxies -- carrying your voice calls to your carrier over someone else's wifi and the Internet, to be clear -- does *not* proxy the cellular control channel necessary to make CMAS/WEA work, and those alerts can be expected NOT to arrive if your phone is on WIFI only or out of all range of ANY carrier's towers. The only reports I'm still looking for are ones from people who are sure their phone was set to WIFI-only, and was out of range of cell coverage, and still got the national test alert, today at 1418EDT. Thanks, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274
Are these alerts queued up for later delivery if a device is off-line, out of range, or connected to a Wi-Fi calling network (where these types of cellular signals are not relayed?) If so, how long are they stored before being purged from the system? 1 hour? 24 hours? -Brad —Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 4, 2023, at 2:14 PM, Jay R. Ashworth via Outages <outages@outages.org> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay R. Ashworth via Outages" <outages@outages.org>
I could be unsurprised to find that the carrier VoWIFI proxies missed out on proxying SMS Cell Broadcast, which I gather provides the underlying PHY for CMAS.
I have now an authoritative report that no, the carrier WIFI proxies -- carrying your voice calls to your carrier over someone else's wifi and the Internet, to be clear -- does *not* proxy the cellular control channel necessary to make CMAS/WEA work, and those alerts can be expected NOT to arrive if your phone is on WIFI only or out of all range of ANY carrier's towers.
The only reports I'm still looking for are ones from people who are sure their phone was set to WIFI-only, and was out of range of cell coverage, and still got the national test alert, today at 1418EDT.
Thanks, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.bcp38.info__;!!PIZeeW5wscynRQ!vPBHEAK... 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 _______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages...
On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, Chapman, Brad (NBCUniversal) via Outages wrote:
Are these alerts queued up for later delivery if a device is off-line, out of range, or connected to a Wi-Fi calling network (where these types of cellular signals are not relayed?)
If so, how long are they stored before being purged from the system? 1 hour? 24 hours?
WEA/CMAS are not queued. WEA/CMAS are re-broadcast by carrier towers multiple times during the valid time (determined by the sender) over the control channel. In this case, the valid time was 30 minutes. There is no record in the carrier network which devices received a WEA broadcast. If you turn your device (off and) on later, during the valid period, it may receive a tower re-broadcast (or not, radio waves are not deterministic). Each WEA/CMAS messages have a carrier-specific short serial number. The mobile device is responsible for detecting duplicate transmissions (using the short serial number), and not re-alerting for previous alerts. In annoying situations, if your phone roams between different carriers, the carrier short serial numbers may not match causing duplicate alerts. The alert cache is flushed when you turn you phone off, so it won't detect old duplicates when turned on again. SMS Text are different. SMS Text messages are queued in the carrier network, when you phone comes back online it makes a point-to-point data request for queued messages. The carrier keeps a log of SMS Texts, when & where sent, when & where received
I had wondered about the delays yesterday. One of my user's phones went off almost two hours after the window. Butch Wilson Dir. of Instructional Technology Mt. Vernon Township High School Google Education Trainer (GET) MCSE/MCSA/Security+ https://about.me/butch_wilson On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 6:10 PM Chapman, Brad (NBCUniversal) via Outages < outages@outages.org> wrote:
Are these alerts queued up for later delivery if a device is off-line, out of range, or connected to a Wi-Fi calling network (where these types of cellular signals are not relayed?)
If so, how long are they stored before being purged from the system? 1 hour? 24 hours?
-Brad
—Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 4, 2023, at 2:14 PM, Jay R. Ashworth via Outages < outages@outages.org> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay R. Ashworth via Outages" <outages@outages.org>
I could be unsurprised to find that the carrier VoWIFI proxies missed out on proxying SMS Cell Broadcast, which I gather provides the underlying PHY for CMAS.
I have now an authoritative report that no, the carrier WIFI proxies -- carrying your voice calls to your carrier over someone else's wifi and the Internet, to be clear -- does *not* proxy the cellular control channel necessary to make CMAS/WEA work, and those alerts can be expected NOT to arrive if your phone is on WIFI only or out of all range of ANY carrier's towers.
The only reports I'm still looking for are ones from people who are sure their phone was set to WIFI-only, and was out of range of cell coverage, and still got the national test alert, today at 1418EDT.
Thanks, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.bcp38.info__;!!PIZeeW5wscynRQ!vPBHEAK... 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 _______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages... _______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
What my testing experienced based on what I had laying around: No alert iphone - no service, wifi samsung - no service/sim, wifi samsung - off with service/sim blackview - no service/sim, wifi Alert samsung - no service/sim, no wifi xperia - with service/sim, wifi samsung - with service/sim, alerts off samsung - with service/sim, alerts on No alerts that were not received at the time were received. Depending on the os version it either came up as a Presidential Alert or a National Alert. Brian ________________________________ From: Outages <outages-bounces@outages.org> on behalf of Wilson, Butch via Outages <outages@outages.org> Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2023 5:21 AM To: outages@outages.org <outages@outages.org>; Brad.Chapman@nbcuni.com <Brad.Chapman@nbcuni.com> Subject: Re: [outages] [EXTERNAL] Re: IPAWS/FEMA National Test - VoWIFI I had wondered about the delays yesterday. One of my user's phones went off almost two hours after the window. Butch Wilson Dir. of Instructional Technology Mt. Vernon Township High School Google Education Trainer (GET) MCSE/MCSA/Security+ https://about.me/butch_wilson On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 6:10 PM Chapman, Brad (NBCUniversal) via Outages <outages@outages.org<mailto:outages@outages.org>> wrote: Are these alerts queued up for later delivery if a device is off-line, out of range, or connected to a Wi-Fi calling network (where these types of cellular signals are not relayed?) If so, how long are they stored before being purged from the system? 1 hour? 24 hours? -Brad —Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 4, 2023, at 2:14 PM, Jay R. Ashworth via Outages <outages@outages.org<mailto:outages@outages.org>> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay R. Ashworth via Outages" <outages@outages.org<mailto:outages@outages.org>>
I could be unsurprised to find that the carrier VoWIFI proxies missed out on proxying SMS Cell Broadcast, which I gather provides the underlying PHY for CMAS.
I have now an authoritative report that no, the carrier WIFI proxies -- carrying your voice calls to your carrier over someone else's wifi and the Internet, to be clear -- does *not* proxy the cellular control channel necessary to make CMAS/WEA work, and those alerts can be expected NOT to arrive if your phone is on WIFI only or out of all range of ANY carrier's towers.
The only reports I'm still looking for are ones from people who are sure their phone was set to WIFI-only, and was out of range of cell coverage, and still got the national test alert, today at 1418EDT.
Thanks, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra@baylink.com<mailto:jra@baylink.com> Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.bcp38.info__;!!PIZeeW5wscynRQ!vPBHEAK... 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 _______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org<mailto:Outages@outages.org> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages...
Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org<mailto:Outages@outages.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
participants (10)
-
Benjamin Monjay -
Brandon Svec -
Brian R -
Carlos Alvarez -
Chapman, Brad (NBCUniversal) -
Jay R. Ashworth -
Ryan Kearney -
Ryan McGinnis -
Sean Donelan -
Wilson, Butch