Affecting 80+ SONET rings. Restoration expected to be by 6pm EST. Took out all of our carriers at 26 NE 2nd St. Anyone have more intel? Jason
Correction, 36 NE 2nd. On 03/05/2011 10:39 AM, Jason LeBlanc wrote:
Affecting 80+ SONET rings. Restoration expected to be by 6pm EST. Took out all of our carriers at 26 NE 2nd St. Anyone have more intel?
Jason _______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
If it really was SONET *ring*, how could a fiber cut cause an outage? Frank -----Original Message----- From: outages-bounces@outages.org [mailto:outages-bounces@outages.org] On Behalf Of Jason LeBlanc Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 9:40 AM To: outages@outages.org Subject: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami Affecting 80+ SONET rings. Restoration expected to be by 6pm EST. Took out all of our carriers at 26 NE 2nd St. Anyone have more intel? Jason _______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
That defies every common understanding of "SONET ring". Better to call it "linear STS connection" then. =) Frank -----Original Message----- From: mpetach@gmail.com [mailto:mpetach@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Petach Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 1:48 PM To: frnkblk@iname.com Cc: Jason LeBlanc; outages@outages.org Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Frank Bulk <frnkblk@iname.com> wrote:
If it really was SONET *ring*, how could a fiber cut cause an outage?
Frank
Just because it's a ring doesn't mean it was configured for protection... Matt
Not really... A SONET Ring can provision circuits with or without a protect path. Circuits which are built with a protect path are not affected by a single cut. Circuits which are built without a protect path can be affected by a single cut, but, leave the other side of the ring available to other circuits. It's not uncommon for a carrier to (and quite reasonably so) charge more for a protected circuit. This configuration can be done on a per-circuit basis. The SONET itself is still a ring, whether any particular circuit on that ring is groomed for protection or not. Owen On Mar 5, 2011, at 11:55 AM, Frank Bulk wrote:
That defies every common understanding of "SONET ring". Better to call it "linear STS connection" then. =)
Frank
-----Original Message----- From: mpetach@gmail.com [mailto:mpetach@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Petach Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 1:48 PM To: frnkblk@iname.com Cc: Jason LeBlanc; outages@outages.org Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami
On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Frank Bulk <frnkblk@iname.com> wrote:
If it really was SONET *ring*, how could a fiber cut cause an outage?
Frank
Just because it's a ring doesn't mean it was configured for protection...
Matt
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While you're technically correct, it's not how it's commonly implemented. Well, maybe it's more common than I was aware. =) It's not how regional and state fiber networks in our neck of the woods do it. Frank -----Original Message----- From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen@delong.com] Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 2:07 PM To: frnkblk@iname.com Cc: 'Matthew Petach'; outages@outages.org Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami Not really... A SONET Ring can provision circuits with or without a protect path. Circuits which are built with a protect path are not affected by a single cut. Circuits which are built without a protect path can be affected by a single cut, but, leave the other side of the ring available to other circuits. It's not uncommon for a carrier to (and quite reasonably so) charge more for a protected circuit. This configuration can be done on a per-circuit basis. The SONET itself is still a ring, whether any particular circuit on that ring is groomed for protection or not. Owen On Mar 5, 2011, at 11:55 AM, Frank Bulk wrote:
That defies every common understanding of "SONET ring". Better to call it "linear STS connection" then. =)
Frank
-----Original Message----- From: mpetach@gmail.com [mailto:mpetach@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Petach Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 1:48 PM To: frnkblk@iname.com Cc: Jason LeBlanc; outages@outages.org Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami
On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Frank Bulk <frnkblk@iname.com> wrote:
If it really was SONET *ring*, how could a fiber cut cause an outage?
Frank
Just because it's a ring doesn't mean it was configured for protection...
Matt
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On Behalf Of Frank Bulk Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 1:27 PM To: 'Owen DeLong' Cc: outages@outages.org Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami
While you're technically correct, it's not how it's commonly implemented. Well, maybe it's more common than I was aware. =) It's not how regional and state fiber networks in our neck of the woods do it.
Frank
Concur. If a customer buys a "ring" they expect a ring. Protection is implied. If they buy a point-to-point, that is a different story. A protected point-to-point might be provisioned on a ring or it might be provisioned with two separate point-to-point circuits. A "SONET ring failure" would require two faults. That said, I have seen cases where both sides of the ring enter a building by the same trench allowing one case of backhoe fade to take out the entire building.
I'm sorry to be a kvetch, but it seems to me that a simple outage notification on the "Outages" list has turned into a colloquium on SONET failure modes. If I should be in a different venue please flame away, but the SNR here for "Outages" lately is sometimes as bad as NANOG. Ken Guy Network Architect AM Best Company From: "George Bonser" <gbonser@seven.com> To: <frnkblk@iname.com>, "Owen DeLong" <owen@delong.com> Cc: outages@outages.org Date: 03/05/2011 04:52 PM Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami Sent by: outages-bounces@outages.org
On Behalf Of Frank Bulk Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 1:27 PM To: 'Owen DeLong' Cc: outages@outages.org Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami
While you're technically correct, it's not how it's commonly implemented. Well, maybe it's more common than I was aware. =) It's not how regional and state fiber networks in our neck of the woods do it.
Frank
Concur. If a customer buys a "ring" they expect a ring. Protection is implied. If they buy a point-to-point, that is a different story. A protected point-to-point might be provisioned on a ring or it might be provisioned with two separate point-to-point circuits. A "SONET ring failure" would require two faults. That said, I have seen cases where both sides of the ring enter a building by the same trench allowing one case of backhoe fade to take out the entire building. _______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
Thanks, Ken, for reminding me that discussions should go to outages-discussion. This is the last post on this issue until Jason gives us a status update or that it's fixed. Frank From: Ken J Guy [mailto:Ken.Guy@ambest.com] Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 4:40 PM To: George Bonser Cc: frnkblk@iname.com; outages@outages.org; outages-bounces@outages.org; Owen DeLong Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami I'm sorry to be a kvetch, but it seems to me that a simple outage notification on the "Outages" list has turned into a colloquium on SONET failure modes. If I should be in a different venue please flame away, but the SNR here for "Outages" lately is sometimes as bad as NANOG. Ken Guy Network Architect AM Best Company From: "George Bonser" <gbonser@seven.com> To: <frnkblk@iname.com>, "Owen DeLong" <owen@delong.com> Cc: outages@outages.org Date: 03/05/2011 04:52 PM Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami Sent by: outages-bounces@outages.org _____
On Behalf Of Frank Bulk Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 1:27 PM To: 'Owen DeLong' Cc: outages@outages.org Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami
While you're technically correct, it's not how it's commonly implemented. Well, maybe it's more common than I was aware. =) It's not how regional and state fiber networks in our neck of the woods do it.
Frank
Concur. If a customer buys a "ring" they expect a ring. Protection is implied. If they buy a point-to-point, that is a different story. A protected point-to-point might be provisioned on a ring or it might be provisioned with two separate point-to-point circuits. A "SONET ring failure" would require two faults. That said, I have seen cases where both sides of the ring enter a building by the same trench allowing one case of backhoe fade to take out the entire building. _______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org <https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages <FONT COLOR=000000> <FONT SIZE=2> ============================================================================ ==================== The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. A.M. Best Company Inc., Oldwick NJ, USA and its subsidiaries. ============================================================================ ====================
Nope; you're right. Folks; please move the SONET semantics discussion to, um, outages-discuss? Cheers, -- jra ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken J Guy" <Ken.Guy@ambest.com> To: "George Bonser" <gbonser@seven.com> Cc: outages@outages.org, outages-bounces@outages.org Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 5:40:27 PM Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami I'm sorry to be a kvetch, but it seems to me that a simple outage notification on the "Outages" list has turned into a colloquium on SONET failure modes. If I should be in a different venue please flame away, but the SNR here for "Outages" lately is sometimes as bad as NANOG.
Ken Guy Network Architect AM Best Company
From: "George Bonser" <gbonser@seven.com> To: <frnkblk@iname.com>, "Owen DeLong" <owen@delong.com> Cc: outages@outages.org Date: 03/05/2011 04:52 PM Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami Sent by: outages-bounces@outages.org
On Behalf Of Frank Bulk Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 1:27 PM To: 'Owen DeLong' Cc: outages@outages.org Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami
While you're technically correct, it's not how it's commonly implemented. Well, maybe it's more common than I was aware. =) It's not how regional and state fiber networks in our neck of the woods do it.
Frank
Concur. If a customer buys a "ring" they expect a ring. Protection is implied. If they buy a point-to-point, that is a different story. A protected point-to-point might be provisioned on a ring or it might be provisioned with two separate point-to-point circuits.
A "SONET ring failure" would require two faults. That said, I have seen cases where both sides of the ring enter a building by the same trench allowing one case of backhoe fade to take out the entire building.
_______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
_______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
Thanks Jay. On Mar 5, 2011 9:43 PM, "Jay Ashworth" <jra@baylink.com> wrote:
Nope; you're right. Folks; please move the SONET semantics discussion to, um, outages-discuss?
Cheers, -- jra
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken J Guy" <Ken.Guy@ambest.com> To: "George Bonser" <gbonser@seven.com> Cc: outages@outages.org, outages-bounces@outages.org Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 5:40:27 PM Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami I'm sorry to be a kvetch, but it seems to me that a simple outage notification on the "Outages" list has turned into a colloquium on SONET failure modes. If I should be in a different venue please flame away, but the SNR here for "Outages" lately is sometimes as bad as NANOG.
Ken Guy Network Architect AM Best Company
From: "George Bonser" <gbonser@seven.com> To: <frnkblk@iname.com>, "Owen DeLong" <owen@delong.com> Cc: outages@outages.org Date: 03/05/2011 04:52 PM Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami Sent by: outages-bounces@outages.org
On Behalf Of Frank Bulk Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 1:27 PM To: 'Owen DeLong' Cc: outages@outages.org Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami
While you're technically correct, it's not how it's commonly implemented. Well, maybe it's more common than I was aware. =) It's not how regional and state fiber networks in our neck of the woods do it.
Frank
Concur. If a customer buys a "ring" they expect a ring. Protection is implied. If they buy a point-to-point, that is a different story. A protected point-to-point might be provisioned on a ring or it might be provisioned with two separate point-to-point circuits.
A "SONET ring failure" would require two faults. That said, I have seen cases where both sides of the ring enter a building by the same trench allowing one case of backhoe fade to take out the entire building.
_______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
_______________________________________________ Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
Wow, I wake up to quite the storm. Outage was restored early Saturday afternoon. I was relaying what was told to me, which was not very much. I was fishing to see if anyone else was affected. I'll be looking for an RFO. Jason On 03/05/2011 10:32 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Thanks Jay.
On Mar 5, 2011 9:43 PM, "Jay Ashworth" <jra@baylink.com <mailto:jra@baylink.com>> wrote:
Nope; you're right. Folks; please move the SONET semantics discussion to, um, outages-discuss?
Cheers, -- jra
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken J Guy" <Ken.Guy@ambest.com <mailto:Ken.Guy@ambest.com>> To: "George Bonser" <gbonser@seven.com <mailto:gbonser@seven.com>> Cc: outages@outages.org <mailto:outages@outages.org>, outages-bounces@outages.org <mailto:outages-bounces@outages.org> Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2011 5:40:27 PM Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami I'm sorry to be a kvetch, but it seems to me that a simple outage notification on the "Outages" list has turned into a colloquium on SONET failure modes. If I should be in a different venue please flame away, but the SNR here for "Outages" lately is sometimes as bad as NANOG.
Ken Guy Network Architect AM Best Company
From: "George Bonser" <gbonser@seven.com <mailto:gbonser@seven.com>> To: <frnkblk@iname.com <mailto:frnkblk@iname.com>>, "Owen DeLong" <owen@delong.com <mailto:owen@delong.com>> Cc: outages@outages.org <mailto:outages@outages.org> Date: 03/05/2011 04:52 PM Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami Sent by: outages-bounces@outages.org <mailto:outages-bounces@outages.org>
On Behalf Of Frank Bulk Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 1:27 PM To: 'Owen DeLong' Cc: outages@outages.org <mailto:outages@outages.org> Subject: Re: [outages] Major Fiber Cut in Miami
While you're technically correct, it's not how it's commonly implemented. Well, maybe it's more common than I was aware. =) It's not how regional and state fiber networks in our neck of the woods do it.
Frank
Concur. If a customer buys a "ring" they expect a ring. Protection is implied. If they buy a point-to-point, that is a different story. A protected point-to-point might be provisioned on a ring or it might be provisioned with two separate point-to-point circuits.
A "SONET ring failure" would require two faults. That said, I have seen cases where both sides of the ring enter a building by the same trench allowing one case of backhoe fade to take out the entire building.
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Outages mailing list Outages@outages.org <mailto:Outages@outages.org> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
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participants (8)
-
Frank Bulk -
George Bonser -
Jason LeBlanc -
Jay Ashworth -
Josh Luthman -
Ken J Guy -
Matthew Petach -
Owen DeLong